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>>> coming up next on "arizona horizon," congressman paul gosar talks about immigration reform, a proposed copper mine in superior, and other



core power yoga nw portland

core power yoga nw portland, congressional issues. and an immigration attorney talks about the recent raids at a local chain of car washes,


next on "arizona horizon." >>> "arizona horizon" is made possible by contributions from the friends of eight, members of your arizona pbs station, thank you. >>> good evening, and welcome to "arizona horizon," i'm ted simons.


attorney general tom horne and secretary of state ken bennett have filed a lawsuit asking the courts to require those who register to vote using a federal form to prove that they are u.s. citizens. horne and bennett argue that proposition 200 requires proof


of citizenship when using state forms to register, and the same requirements should apply to federal forms. horne says that a u.s. supreme court ruling that went against the state earlier this year paved the way for the lawsuit. >>> congressman paul gosar


cohosted a town hall yesterday in superior to hear public comment on a proposed copper mine in the area. and tomorrow representative gosar is part of a congressional field hearing focusing on the irs and the epa. joining us now in studio is


congressman paul gosar who represents arizona's fourth congressional district. great to see you. >> good to see you, ted. >> we've done a lot of stories on this copper mine. >> what did you hear at the town hall?


>> we had a great turnout. congresswoman kirkpatrick and myself had an open discussion about the facts and how they pertain to the superior land transfer, so that the third largest copper mine could be opened up and bring over a billion a year to this state


over the next 50 years. >> what is the status? >> it may be as late as the first week in october, the senate has the same type of bill, there just needs to be a hearing in the senate, and you never know when it could happen. it could happen sometime this


year, maybe next year. >> the land is in superior, near superior, in exchange for 5,000 some odd acres elsewhere? >> 2400 acres in exchange for pristine land that lots of environmentalists would like to have to consolidate. the mine owned 25% of this


patented area and they need one small part to fill in the blank. it's an old campground there. >> we have done a lot of stories and there are questions about environmental concerns and the whole nine yards. talk about environmental concerns.


>> a lot of people say they would like to see a pre-epa done before we make the transfer. congress has that plenary power. my bill, our bill and my bill precludes anything going forward in that mine without going through the proper environmental protections and assays with


state and local entities. >> so those who say the environmental studies should be done before the land swap, you're saying they are done first? >> no, they are done before any mining can be done. >> but the land swap can still


happen before -- >> absolutely. that's congress' plenary power. they are saying the executive branch should have to do this again. who's going to bear the cost of that, the taxpayers or the business?


they say we have to go through it again? that's ridiculous. all the water, land, dialoguing with native tribes, all have to be done before you can go ahead with the mine. it is only the transfer of land, it doesn't allow the company to


pass "go" without doing all of the environmental impacts. >> they seem to be saying, why even bother with the land transfer before the environmental studies. >> you shouldn't have to do it twice. i'm not ceding the executive


power any more power than they already have. >> there's no completed mining plan of operation, everything from processing, crushing, waste disposal, all of that. they are saying they still don't entirely understand the mining plan of operation.


has that been completed and filed? >> that's not due yet, it's coming up shortly in the timetable of aspects. these are the numbers that are coming forward. in the mine plan of operation, they are going to come forward


with those and they pretty much have everything resolved. they are carrying over half of the water supply they will be using. there is reused water, to be used over and over again. the plan is where they are going to place the tailings.


they have been looking at abc for construction of our roads and have opened to the public for those dialogues. >> for those who say we need to see the mining plan of operation, before the land swap, you would say: >> this is the plenary power of


congress. chances are it's going to be done already. it's going to be coming forward, they are almost ready for that. so it may even supersede the this is a land transfer, nothing more, nothing less. we want to be sure they are held


in check, that they honor all environmental impacts across the board. >> what if the land is sacred to some tribes? >> this doesn't have any bearing within the reservation aspects. the forest service conducted an exhaustive research of the


campground and they show no borders of tribes with this. apache leap does have some problems and they have been taken off the table. but the rest shows no inquiry. i've represented this area numerous time with the san carlos.


they are tough to talk to any type of businesses because they only want government to government contact. if you're a government you need to talk to all governments and peoples involved in some aspect. >> that was brought out, what is the status that the tribe can


participate? there are two studies and polls out that show that the law is then 25% of the tribe, the way the chairman has gone, they want to have a shot at those jobs coming to the san carlos. >> raucous meetings, behaved? >> they are very civil meetings.


i think it was very civil and there were a lot more comments than questions, believe it or not. a lot of people are very pointed about their opinions on superior. >> immigration reform, i want to get your thoughts on the senate


plan. >> dead on arrival. >> no chance? how come? >> it generates revenues and taxes and that can't start, it's illegal. we have to have this conversation about immigration,


i engaged this. i talked to the u.s. chamber and arizona chamber in 2011. this is such a core issue to america that we ought to have small bills that we talk articulately with the american public, and not be afraid of the conversation.


in the senate you had a very limited debate in one committee and a very limited debate with limited amendments on the senate floor. america knows what's behind big bills. that's obama-care. we should be engaging the


american public in regards to what's a part of our american fabric. >> this seems to be a bipartisan senate plan, both arizona senators involved with this. sounds like it's coming over to the house with some bipartisanship.


does that make any difference at all? >> a bad bill is a bad bill regardless. if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, walks like a duck, it's a duck. >> we've passed by poor legislation.


we ought to get back to good i've asked the speaker and the majority leader to compare and contrast what's going on in the house, smaller security, visa reforms, e-verify, working programs, and show the public exactly what is being entertained in this bill.


>> the head of the house judiciary just recently said no pass for citizenship. some folks weren't sure exactly how he stands. >> how do you stand? >> i'm a science guy, ted. i can't solve problems until you give me a series of fixed


numbers. go back to 1985 and 1986 and provide border security. that means you have to do it in an enterprising way. yuma hasn't had an illegal border crossing in almost six years. they enforce the rule of law.


>> the american public believes we have such limited resources and what you do at an aim, you do everywhere, you do in buffalo, new york. everybody has to be involved in it. it has to be an articulated, well thought out process by way


of the senate plan. >> theoretically. there's lots of mays, no shalls. it goes back to homeland security, which has been a very poor advocate. there are no metrics set there. they utilize congress to work with all entities.


but it comes back to congress, where that plenary power belongs. >> i've heard a discharge petition is possible, taking it and throwing it on the house if you have enough folks agreeing to do that. how strong is republican


opposition? >> i think it would cost leadership jobs. >> really. >> yes, sir. >> you don't think that's going to happen? >> i don't. we won by a framework of


constitutionality. we learned what obama-care was. this is exactly a trip and paste type legislation. that's exactly what the senate wants to do, we should be upolding the constitution, not advocating for changes. >> critics of the republican


position say the party is further jeopardizing latino votes in the house. how do you stand on that? >> i find it offensive. it's not just latinos, it's indian-americans, pakistani americans, people lining up to try to find out the right way to


go about this. washington, d.c. is a poor set of rules of law. in the james rosen case, pick and choose, he either lied to congress or lied to a judge. then he defines the rule of the supreme court and voting rights act.


that's shameful, absolutely shameful. >> between the irs and the epa, the subtitle is bureaucrats out of control. >> i think we know where you stand on this. >> this is a field trip with the delegation here, the republican


delegation. the bureaucrats are out of control, it's an american issue. we've seen the irs involved with the sec in the federal elections campaigns with regard to federal groups. we saw a discharge of proprieties, a pew lit groups,


most of them got their waivers and 5o1(c)3s and 4s. we need to rein this in, but we want to hear from them. >> and the irs will have the affordable care act. you don't want the irs involved at all in obama-care? >> how do you work tax credits


and such? >> i think we've got a broken tax system, why not fix it? make it a fair playing field, making sure that people keep more of their moneys. >> and quickly, even today i believe someone in the committee regarding this business of the


irs, what some call a scandal, is coming out and saying even more progressive liberal groups would have you on the list with words like emerge, occupy, and progressive. apparently the inspector general of the irs didn't know a heck of a lot about what he was talking


about when he receives. >> some are calling this a sam, share the facts and have a discussion about it. photographer, when we asked the attorney general or the fbi, have you appointed anybody to look in. you couldn't even look at this.


>> a responsible government takes in the good and bad. when you see her trying to give her take on it and then take the first, something's wrong here. we need to answer back to the american people. >> before we go, we need to tax or talk to what seems to be a


compromised unit. your thoughts in there. >> because? >> first of all, we're basing it on flawed custodians. i advocated for the states adopt no. 2, it involved treat yes obligation and the primary power on that is congress.


if they want to do something they have to come through congress with some jurisdiction. >> the feds, the tribes, all coming to a compromise and trying to balance environmental concerns, power and stability >> those bring them through >> nice try, but come to me


first in that doctrine. >> are you against agreeing to this proposal? >> this has an open process including congress. >> good to have you here, thanks for joining us. >> ted, thanks for having me.


>>> u.s. immigration and customs enforcement agents rated 16 danny's car wash locations over the weekend. the company is accused of rehiring hundreds of known undocumented workers. 78 indictments, documented fraud and i.d. theft.


here to talk about the raid is immigration attorney liz chatham who chairs the american immigration lawyers association. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> what exactly does the indictment allege? what went on here?


>> this particular indictment was done by ice, the enforcement arm of department of homeland security. they went to the different car washes because they believed that there were unauthorized workers that were hired by the employer, and that the employer


assisted or they were involved in creating false documentation in order to hire them. part of why this is so serious is because these workers were originally identified as not having proper work authorization, and the employer made a decision to let them go.


and now subsequently they were rehired. there were allegations that these workers didn't cure the defects and get proper documentation. that there was fraudulent documentation created. >> workers hired under different


names and different i.d.s, these were workers the feds were already aware of. they went to danny's a couple of years ago and said, this isn't working, get rid of these folks. and allegedly danny's just rehired them. >> right, that is what's


presented in the documentation. it's a pretty serious violation that they are involving not just immigration violations, but employment and labor laws, tax evasion, and conspiracy, which are criminal allegations. there's a whole host of a variety of federal charges, and


they were primarily focusing on managers and management of the employers. and that's why this is so serious. they were knowingly hiring and engaging in these violations. >> so supervisors and managers targeted here, were there any


charges against workers that you're aware of? >> the focus of the investigation was not the workers. there were over 200 employees interviewed by ice. they were determined to have proper work authorization or not


to have proper work authorization. and then 179 were taken in for processing and ultimately they were let go. no charges were filed against them. there were 30 that had prior criminal or prior immigration


violations, and those folks were being processed, even though they were being held in detention or they were ordered removed. >> were they aware of the managers' and supervisors' actions? >> it seems to me, through the


audit, if the employer chose to terminate employment there probably was some sort of communication about why it is that these employees are being left go. they have may have approached the worker and said, can you prove to us that you are who you


say you are. either that person may not have come back the next day, or they may have told the employe,r, i don't have the documents that you are requesting. i would say the workers more than likely were aware. what about the owner of the car


wash? any charges against him? >> not that i have seen. this is still an ongoing investigation. they still have to see who the players were. it really identifies and focuses on managers.


if the employer did nothing to prevent i,t, there could be further charges. >> how unusual was this action? and does this signal some kind of a shift in ice strategy? >> i haven't seen this large scale of an ice raid in arizona in recent history.


normally you hear about sheriff joe arpaio's workshop raids, where he seems to target the employed for -- whether or not they are convicted of an ice charge. the analogy would be, are you mowing the lawn or pulling the weeds?


ice is trained to pull the weeds and really clean up what they think is a problem. the problem being employers knowingly hiring an unauthorized workforce. >> do you think ice is sending a message here? >> i don't think this is the


last workforce enforcement there will be, i think there will be employers that may have a high turnover rate of multiple employees, low wage rate they may focus on larger employers because they want to set a precedent. they may want to say, we're not


going to tolerate this. it's maybe reflective of the obama administration, and enforcement is a priority of this administration. >> with that in mind, let's call it comprehensive immigration reform, not the piecemeal plan but comprehensive immigration


reform, how would that have impacted or affected this particular operation?. if we had folks that are here and they want to fix their papers, right now there is no line, they can't go and get a work permit, a green card, citizenship.


they have no mechanism to try to get that right now, there is an attitude that just because you're undocumented that you are a criminal, that you don't deserve to be here. and people raise their families, they have jobs and contribute to paying taxes and file a tax


return. they want to be a part of our society and we need to make a choice and a decision as to if this population of immigrants are going to have a way to do that. to help immigration reform, if there is a way to give a work


permit, and let people come out of the shadows and self-identify and say, there wasn't a way for me to do this in the past, and now you're giving me a chance to do it, i think a majority of folks would want to get their papers straightened out. >> i think the head of the house


judciary would be part of what the house was going to do, but they said this week that a path to citizenship is not going to happen. it's not part of what the house wants to see. how important is that one aspect of immigration reform?


>> it's critical. it's part of the design of comprehensive immigration reform. if you are trying to save immigration rights and ignore people that are already here, it's not comprehensive. they are already contributing


and, you know, when you look at our deportation system, our detention filter, the a, money that's being put into border committees. you're going to maintain that and continue having that be a large expense for our country. if we were able to have reform i


think that would eliminate that backlog and that congestion. >> all right, we've gotta stop you right there. thank you so much for joining us. >> it was a pleasure to be here. >> that's it for now. you have a great evening.


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