Judul : upper west side yoga and wellness
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upper west side yoga and wellness
[ silence ] >> wow. full house, fantastic. all of you obsessedwith the gut [laughter]. hi, welcome to allabout women here at the wonderfulsydney opera house.
upper west side yoga and wellness , i'm delighted to be here too. my name is natasha mitchellfrom abc radio national. i'm a science journalist andbroadcaster in various things. now, who would have guessed thata refreshingly frank field guide
to your faeces, a roadmap to your intestines, a rollicking goodread about your gut and all its machinations; abook that takes toilet talk to the masses [laughter]. who would have thought that thiswould become an international publishing sensation? it has. millions of copiesaround the world sold in at least 18 countries;probably more by now. that's what's happenedwith "gut, the inside story
of our body's mostunderrated organ". german student and scientist,guilia enders was 24 years old when she published this book, chuck full of intriguingresearch and facts about the gut, about itsfunction, about its health. it's beautifully illustratedby her cartoonist sister. before that, she was just 22when a science lab that she did, or a public communication, science communicationevent went totally viral,
and prompted the book writing. and so, a store was born. guilia is a physician. she's finishing her doctoratein microbiology at the institute for microbiology infrankfurt, where she just looked at one very particular bacteria. she may or may not talk about. so, to talk shitwith us [laughter], and i know you don't mind,because you have paid
to be here, please welcomeguilia to australia. [ applause ] >> hello. i'm very excited tobe here today and to talk to all of you, and i think i want todo two things; in the next 20 to 25 minutes, i want to letyou in on like three things that had the most impact onme after learning about them when i was researching for thebook, and i also want to let you in on some backgroundinformation on the process of producing andwriting this book.
and the most important, i think, background information is thisprobably; this is my sister, jill enders, and shewas not only my first and most honest reader, andalso illustrated for the book. but, she was also somebody veryimportant to be in my back; to have my back; i thinkis what you say in english. because, i was very youngwhen i was writing this book, and the publishing world isalready a fully developed business world, and i waskind of like thrown into that.
and to really to bring the book, to publish the bookthe way i wanted; to have the tone i wanted thati thought was most authentic, it really took many fightsactually and many arguments, where i would have surrendered,if i wouldn't have known her by my side, because shereally understood me. and she would questionme very honestly, and so i think the bookbecame what it became because we were sortof together,
and i knew her by my side. and otherwise, i thinkin germany, for example, the book would have beencalled like, 8 metre wellness in the tummy or something[laughter]. and they wanted me to havelike all these lists; do this, do not do this, and so, she'svery important in this process. and just gracious, being, drewthings like this [laughter]. this was actually meant to be inthe very beginning of the book. we were sitting downbrainstorming, and after awhile,
actually pretty quick; i hadlike this idea, and i said, ah, i know how we're goingto start the book. we're going to be like, dearreader, please follow me like alice in wonderland followsthe white rabbit [laughter]. so, don't ask which hole we'regoing to fall into [laughter], and we both had a big laugh. and we felt like, oh, thiswas easy, and it's so good; and we have the beginning of thebook, and that's it we're done; and you know, high five.
i think it took us about 20minutes when we realised; no, we can't pull this off,because it wouldn't be fair. it wouldn't be fairto our readers, because this wasn't the waythis had started for us. we were just as embarrassedas everybody else; if you're like goingto the toilet, but your roommate's standing inthe hallway right next to it, and you're like aaagh, or likeyou know, all these things. we just like; this was ataboo topic for us just
when we were growing up;basically like everyone else. so, it was a very differenteffect that made us open up to this topic; and actuallystarting like loving it and like worshippingit in a way. so, i think the effect is thatyou can look behind faã§ade of skin, because you seewhere it's hidden from us; all those amazing thingsthat have been done for us. and i think once you learn aboutthem, you get more information, you cannot like value and like,
and admire this organ that'svery responsible and smart, and like, i wouldeven say, delightful. it's a very, once you getcloser and closer and closer, it's hard to not like look upto it and be somewhat impressed. so, i think even the toiletbusiness deserves this respect, and this was the way thiswhole started for me; because my roommate oncecame into the kitchen after he had a night of heavydrinking, and he bluntly like asked me bluntly,guilia, you study medicine,
how does pooping work? [laughter] i was standingthere, and i did study medicine, but i did not know howpooping worked and i had to go up to my room and look itup in three different books. and it turns out us humansactually have a very complex and very clean way of deliveringthis business compared to many, almost all other animals; andi was very surprised to learn that there's not only this outersphincter that we all know. we kind of know what's going on.
we can control it. we can be like, whatdid come up with? [laughter] and there'salso like, another one, and i didn't know this, andthe process is actually kind of interesting. so, let's just likego through it once. when we're like, when the rests from digestions aredelivered there, the inner sphincter willopen up, and like let
through a littlebit for testing. so then, sensory cells cananalyse what's being delivered. is it solid, is it gaseous? and then they tell the brain,nervous cells; neurons, and this is the momentyou realise, oh, i've got to go to the toilet. and then brain does what it'ssupposed to do, it connects us, and adapts to the outer world. we like look and check[laughter], and you know, think,
and be like, well, thisis the opera house, solid would probablybe a provoking thing, bad to do [laughter]. gaseous, maybe if i sitlike on the side [laughter], and i can trust topull this off silently. and then, when thebrain then communicates with the outer sphincter,because those two are like close, and then the outersphincter can say like, well, you know, opera house,let's just put it back
in the waiting line,or if you're at home, and you have reallynothing better to do; you know, let it go [laughter]. so, yeah, and as funny asthis might sound in the first like few minutes, it was reallywas one of the three things that changed a lot for me andhow i live on a daily basis. and i think one effect wasthat i just acknowledged; i got to know this innersphincter, and i thought, well, it's actually all so nice.
like this one really caresabout just me and my insides, and the nervous information itgets, is really just what needs to be out so i feel good. this is all i get. it's not connected to the brain, what other people think,how they react to me. it really just has this info. just cares about me foronce; that's a rare thing. and so i got promoted;i believe, in my,
yeah, in my worshiping it. and after that, i used to neverlike to go to public restrooms so much, but afterthat, i could anywhere. i could go on thetrain, on the plane. i just liked this muscle, andi would like listen to it more, and like, be okay, if you sayso, well, i'll try [laughter]. i'll try to arrange that. and also, it a thoughtoccurred to me now, almost, because it's this subject ofhow much do i do to be good
to my inner self, and how manycompromises do i do to be okay with the outer worldas well while i do so, and this is a veryhuman question. sometimes i feel like this isalso a very female question, between the balance betweeninner and outer sphincter. in the book, this is how thislooks, and i show you this because i want to tell youabout; it was actually one of the hardest drawings inthe book, because we sat for three days, andi was never happy
about the way the artist'ssphincter looked [laughter]. it looked so strict, like it wasjust like push back everything; be like a party pooper,so strict. and i thought, thisisn't fair to him, because he has his task too. he's important too. there has to be likea balance out of two. and then i had to sit downand like to adjectives and characteristicsover and over again.
my sister would listen, andshe would ask more questions; and then afterwards, she waslike, ah, i think i have it. the way you talk aboutit, it reminds me so much of the roommate of myboyfriend [laughter], because he wouldalways read books on how to behave well, howto eat correctly. he would read thenews all the time. he would like mediatewith the afterworld on a very professional world.
so, it's now how he looks. he basically really looksa lot like him [laughter]. he even has pants like him. and, i mean, we of course, had to tell him before the bookwas published, which was sort of an awkward breakfast. but, i guess in the end it wasgood, because we could explain to him that for us, itcould also be a compliment to be the asshole [laughter].
yeah. and knowing about your gut and how the things lookactually can be very helpful. in this scenario, when you knowanother muscle, you understand that it's actuallybetter to go on the toilet in a squatting-like position. researchers have shown this byx-raying people who had just like swallowed liquids andlike lightening things, and x-raying them whilethey're on the toilet. so, understanding that there's amuscle that when they pull back
and then make a turn inthe end of their colon, and this muscle is looseningup a bit when you put your legs up on a stool or something. it's something thatyou understand when you know allthis, you know, how the anatomic relations are. and i'm very glad, becausemy sister made me sit to modify this story,and i'm very thankful that she changed my hairstyleso nobody would know,
but now you know, but yeah. and this is something that goes to the whole purposeof the book. it's really the question,why does this look so weird, and what's the gut for. maybe do i start liking itmore now that i know why it's like that, and this goesfor things like oesophagus? why does the oesophagusgo like on the side into the stomach, not straight?
well, it saves you like swelling up when you're laughingreally hard, for example. when you apply pressure,it all goes up, and not to the side so much. so, that's a smart design. but, it also creates thisbubble right here that will for some people bea bit uncomfortable after they've eaten too much, and the air bubble will bepressed up against the nerves
that are close to the heart,so you might feel nauseous, up to like even having pain. it also explains reallynicely why it's easier to burp when you're laying on the leftside, compared to the right. and then other things,how does the architecture of the small intestine have tobe; an organ that's responsible for us being living beings. like, how does ithave to be structured, so that it has thisamazing process
of taking somethingenergy has put together; like the nature has usedenergy to put together an apple or a cake, and then to say itroughly, when we chuck this up, the energy is free, and we canbe living beings because of that process, sohow does an organ that mediates thisprocess have to look like; and all the intolerances andthings that come with it? and then there's justsimple questions, like, why do we have an appendix,and an actually new hypothesis
on questions like these that i think haven't beenspread too much to the public. so, why the first partof the book looks, part of it looks like. the second is looking at thethings in action, how they move, with the nerve cellsdirecting them. and we follow a piece of cake through like thedigestive tract, and i like understandingall the processes,
because many movements of our gastrointestinal tractseem a bit overwhelming at time; like having reflux orvomiting or constipation. you feel like you can'treally do much about it, and it kind of feelsuncomfortable at times, and i think understandingthe knowledge and reasons and the whys behind it oftenhelps a lot with those feelings, and then makes youcooperate towards them. i think for example withconstipation, this is very true,
because many people giveyou all kinds of advice, but once you've reallyunderstood what type of constipation, for example,is the one you're having, you can really make a cleardecision on what could work for this type of constipation. so understanding the movementto be able to work together with it better is something ilike, but that's not the thing that changed the most for me. oh, and then for example,like misunderstandings.
like the rumblingof the stomach; you think like you're hungry,but actually this is just in between digestion, so the small intestinehas time to clean up. the small intestine is abig level of cleanliness, when there's more food to beprocess, and you create this like strong muscular waveto like clear out everything that doesn't needto be there anymore. and this, like themrrrr, mrrr, mrrr happens,
so when you're littleembarrassed at your office that you make all thesenoises, it's actually because there's a veryeager organ cleaning up. and i like this also,because it shows nicely that we have sometimes a rawpicture from the 8 metres of intestines, really one thathas to do with faeces business. all the other seven arevery clean after digestion. they hardly smell likeanything, so this is something to reconsider, i think.
so, the second thingthat changed for me a lot was reallygetting into the whole topic of the gut/brain access. and this was the startof me getting into this, was actually a classmateof mine at the university who had killed himself, and i had just sat next himone day before he did that. and, at that point intime, i already read a lot about the gut, and i knew itwas connected to so many things,
hormones, immunecells and whatever. i really didn't know thatthere was a gut/brain access, and i thought maybe itwould be more interesting to know more about it. i had noticed that he hadlike a very strong bad breath, and i wasn't surethat could just be like a hint or something. so, i started trying tofind information on that, and then i foundthere already was lots
of very interesting studies. and one of them; oneof the researchers that impressed me awhole lot was bart craig. when he, he has like for20 years following nerves to the brain; whereexactly they're going, and showing where it haseffects, and for example, information from the gut couldnever reach the visual cortex, otherwise, while you'redigesting, you'd see all kinds of colours and shapes, but itcan actually get to other areas
that are quite interesting. it can be fear orself-awareness, plus emotions for example too. so, this was interesting,and he also showed that the nerves could go to apart of the brain, the insular, that in his theory producesa picture of the whole body; like saying, my feet are cold. i had a nice sandwich. i'm a bit worried, and youput together a picture,
and you do this every fewseconds, creating sort of like a movie of yourself-awareness, how you feel, but that has nervesthat can go there, and when you can findthis with research, for example with emersonmeyer, who showed that people with irritable bowel syndrome or inflammatory boweldisease have higher risks of having anxiety or depression,even when you compare them with other people whohave chronic diseases
that aren't much fun either. this starts to like form aninteresting picture, i think. and we've seen some quiteinteresting animal studies, where like animalswould change behaviour when they were givendifferent bacteria, and in the positive direction;so making them less stressed, learning better, andthings like this. so, this altogether startedto form a new picture for me, and it was actually one of; so,the second thing that changed,
is that i changed myperspective on mood. i look at my mood differentlynow, and i think many of us externalise a whole lotwhen you think about our mood, and often times, you findthis very understandable, during the day, youoften feel like the brain under screen, i think. and then, we try tofind reason outside that are making us feel theway we feel, and with knowing that mood also comestogether from other places,
not only around you, butsignals that your gut might send up to the brain toinform how the whole rest of your body is do, but not onlyinformation from eyes or ears, but like all kinds of hormones or how the immunecells are doing, or what the bacteriaare producing. just so like give someinformation, and to put this in the insular within thecreation of how am i doing, then i think makes sense, andmakes you think a bit more
about well, how didi treat my body. and now when i wake upfairly early sometimes; i do this a few times a year,and i worry, and i'm like, ah, did i do this right or should ido this more, and was that okay. and then now, i think,okay hold on a second, what did i eat last night? did i eat too late? did i stress my body? did i stress my gut,and then i get up
and like eat something light,and have a tea or something, and it's surprising to me howwell this technique has worked, because it soundsso simple, but yeah, this is one of the threethings that changed. and the third thing is probablylike my absolute favour, and i get very excitedabout this every time; it's the bacterium, becausei do my doctrine thesis in microbiology, and thisis something popping up. and, i'm sure you've sortof heard of it somewhere.
we have about like 2kilogrammes; up to 2 kilogrammes of bacteria in our guts thatproduce all kinds of things. they will help us digest. they will teach ourimmune system. they will protect us frombad bacteria that come along, and many of themare very mysterious. we don't know a lot aboutthem, but what i try to do in this third part of thebook; i want the readers to understand why researchersare even looking into questions
like how these bacteriainfluence our body weight or our risk for diabetesor mental health or things like inflammatory diseases,like rheumatic, arthritis, and one question that iwas asked, like very often, in talking about thiswas our body weight, how this could beinfluenced by bacteria, and this was actually oneof the topics that started to draw a lot of attentionfor microbiomes research. and what they saw inthe beginning with mice,
who got bacteria fromoverweight people, and they would suddenlyput on a lot of weight, and then when they got bacteriafrom normal weight people, this could be reversed. and then they started thinkingthat there's some bacteria that can harvest caloriesbetter from our food, thus making a low carb diet,at least for a limited amount of time, actually a bit morerational, and may be working, and then after awhile,
they realised this couldnot have been the case, because some mice puton 60% more body fat, and they were eatingthe same thing, that it was justmathematically not possible. so, they had other theories, like the bacteria couldprobably influence other areas, like our thyroid gland, byproducing tiny molecules that go into the blood stream,or even up to our brain and influencing processes tobuild up an appetite, cravings
and satiety, because theywere chemically capable of doing that, and by being sosmall, diffusing in the blood, and through the blood brainbarrier in the brain also. and i like this areaof research; not only because it makes youhave a new perspective on how to get the bikini body you want, but also because i reallyadmire how this field of research is startingto build up, because one sideis really looking
at what bacteria could bewrong, what could be broken, so people put on more weightwith what kind of gut bacteria. but the other side of researchis looking into what did we used to have that used to protectus from putting on body weight, or what good bacteria canwe take from people that eat and eat and eat anddon't put on much weight. and so, i like this. i'm not saying the otherone is bad, that for decades and centuries, thiswas very good for us
in curing many diseasesby looking at what's broke and what's wrong, but alsolooking at what's good, and what you can take from this. i just find this to be avery interesting and pulling, like in a teasing way, a goodway to pull new knowledge and ideas to alsolook at it this way. and then the third part, andthe part changed for me again; things in my life, waslooking at cleanliness, and what actual new or modern orthe right cleanliness would look
like when you thinkabout the gut. and in the beginningwhen i wrote this text, i didn't think it wouldchange much for me at all. i knew the hygiene hypothesis, so people would getmore allergies, because things wouldmaybe to clean. so, i thought i'm justgoing to put this together, and i know what it's about. but then i started reading moreabout the history of cleanliness
and our perception of it, andi realised, we start it off on a very interestingfoot knowing bacteria when tuberculosis started to seton, and people suddenly knew, okay, bacteria, otherthings that are responsible for tuberculosis; they'reinvisible, they might kill you, so there was a big fearbuilding up, and we would like get all theserules on hygiene. there were some really nicepieces of paper that were handed out in the 20s in germany saying
like don't use thesame toothbrush, don't use the same towel. some even had thewordings limit kissing to the eroticallyunavoidable [laughter]. i really like that also. so, you can see, we startedhaving this perspective on cleanliness, which verymuch sticks to our society; the western societiesto this day. it's in a way fear based, andthis continued on in the 50s,
60s, when fear became,like cleaning became a way of having some like somesense of structure and order in a life feeling sometimesa bit chaotic at times. so, you would like generate,yeah, structure and comas, and order, and to this day, i think it's becomingmore and more extract. we now buy disinfectants thatwhen you've cleaned with them, everything looks exactlyhow it looked before, but you still think it wasreally worth paying the money.
so what's behind, what otherextract ideas behind that? i think that's a veryinteresting question. and when we look at the recentscience, we see that 95% of all bacteria on thisplanet don't harm us at all. either they help us, orthey don't have the genetic possibilities todo anything to us. so, this is a perspectiveon cleanliness that is not very effectoriented, and in fact, when you look atcleanliness in the gut,
you see that really cleanlinessis about a balance all the time and you can't put anenergy to stay away from the bad all the time. this is not how it works. it's nice to this also thatthis is the not the whole idea. the whole idea of having enoughgood bacteria and then some bad, even more wide, to get theimmune system some sightseeing, some training, to know whatthey're looking out for really. so, i started having thisdifferent perspective,
and then a few weeks after i'dwritten the text, i held a talk at my university aboutmy doctorate work, and i made a mistake by athousand, and i realised it like just when i wasdone, and i walked home. and i was like; i made amistake by a thousand, whew. and then i like calmed myself. okay, that's alright though;most of the time i said like useful good things,so there was this mistake, but i think it wasstill balanced.
it was like still theclean thing, you know, and that's when irealised, oh wow, i believe i took my perspective on cleanliness toa further level. maybe we all do. i don't know, it's mytheory at the moment. we take how we handlecleanliness, sometimes a bit alsolike a life hygiene, and knowing that this isnot always about changing
from the bad, but fosteringthe good; like in the gut, was something that was veryeasing and comforting to me, and it helped me in a way. so, in this meeting, ihope i told you mostly good and useful things today. i thank you very muchfor your attention, and i'm looking forwardto the questions. >> you wrote this bookguilia when you were 24? >> yes, 23.
>> 23, as a student. >> so, the age, likeit mattered [laughter]. i should have said like23-1/2 or something, sorry. >> very precise. millions of copies later, andi'm thinking, so who's going to get to play you in thehollywood blockbuster? i wonder. who wouldplay you in the film? >> oh, oh, that'sa good question, especially becausei don't have a tv,
and i don't watchthat many films. >> and who would play the gut? [laughter] >> oh, i think i likehaving different aspects of the gut being like persons,but not the gut itself, because everyone has one, right? so, we all have our own, and then there arequirky characters in it. the small intestinebeing like always eager
and being pushingeverything forward, and the larger intestine beinglike, oh, come on [laughter]. let's just be calm and get allthe difficult things out of it. like, they have differentcharacteristics, but they're likeunique for everyone. >> yeah, i mean this is,this is what's, sorry, likely such a rich way,you're playful with ideas, and you give your biologicalbeings personalities, and i think that's a reallyinteresting approach to take
to science communication. i mean, it's obviouslyhad a tremendous impact. >> yeah, i mean, that's i feelit starts to become, you know, what you've learnt, you forget, and you like really take theknowledge of a part of you, i feel like it just becomesa soul or a personality. like that's the way i memorisehow to treat the small intestine or how to treat thelarge intestine. i memorise the correctcharacteristics are
when i learnt about it. >> what interests me, this workaround connecting gut and brain, and of course, you explained in great detail how thegut has its own brain. it's the largest sensoryorgan in our body. this interconnectivityis something that chinese medicine has talkedabout over many centuries. it's part of theiryoga tradition as well. mainstream contemporary medicinehas been reluctant, and even.
>> ignorant. >> resistant. >> yeah. >> resistant even toexploring this connexion. why do you think thatresistant was there? it's shifting now, but whydo you think it was there? >> well, i think for some part,maybe it's something [laughter]. sometimes i feellike it really is to always state they'redifferent
from alternative medicine. i think there issomething like this. where you feel they're justlike drawing very strong borders to show the difference,because there is harm, or there has been harm causedby alternative medicine. they're trained tolike fend it off. and then, many years, we didn'thave the technique properties to like look intothis area of research. we've just like had machinesto analyse those millions
of bacteria for maybe10, 20 years now, and it's still veryexpensive to do so. so, we really didn't havethe technical equipment, and then also, i thinkin the science world, it probably wasn't the coolestthing to say at the sunday tea, you know, my husbandresearches poop. sorry. you know, so i thinkthere are probably more aspects, but for me, it hadsomething quite like peaceful when i saw this.
because my mum and mygrandma are always very much into alternative medicine, andi never thought it was crazy, because i grew up like this,and many things helped me. but, there was alwayslike a contrast between what i was studyingand what i had seen at home, and then seeing when thesetwo things suddenly start to overlap, and find places where they actually meet wasvery calming for me [laughter]. i couldn't forget.
>> yeah, that's right, themeeting of paradigm if you like. there still though is anxietyabout some of the claims that get made aboutthe gut and gut health. you know, scientistsfeel like, you know, too many claims are made when the evidence isn't quitethere yet or is way off. >> and so there's afine line, isn't there? there's a real gut obsession, and some of the claims madearen't necessarily based
on evidence, but people havetheir own experiential story around their gut as well, so there's a tensionthere, isn't there? >> yeah, and i absolutelyunderstand this, and for me, the most important, themost difficult chapter in the book really wasthe gut/brain access, because at the timethat i was writing, there was basicallyjust like animal studies and some very interestingtheories.
and i had like a monthof sitting in front of a blank page, becausei thought, i don't want to make false promises. i don't want people to likethink now they can cure their mental health problems by just,you know, doing this or this, and i felt very anxious aboutputting it in the wrong words. and it took me quite awhileuntil i'd get to a point where i was okay with it. because i wanted to tell peopleabout this, and i wanted to tell
about the forts that are in theroom, but not making it sound like now this is now thewonder healing method to cure everything. and this is why now, in germany,at least, i updated the book and put it more like theresearches that have been in the last two orthree years with humans. real humans. >> which is nice. >> yeah, it's nice toknow how to relieve.
>> we don't share all thesame gut flora with mice. >> no. >> so, all those micestudies have been done. >> it's nice to know how torelieve your pet mouse's stress, but you know, it's reallyin the end about your own, and there are differencesin the results, and you can see them now; likewith very few studies only. but i think the problem for me mostly isexplaining the theories,
being clear that they are howthey are, and what we have in human studies, andtrying to not get people to be too anxious about it. i feel like many peoplewould then start to believe; now i need to buy all the goodbacteria and put them in my gut, because otherwise, i'llbe, you know, whatever. i would also liketo explain that all of us already haveprobiotic bacteria in our gut; maybe inherited frommum, grandma,
from the nice plant we ate fromsomething good, already there, and just like come and tell what like how the actualscience is at the moment. >> yeah, because there'spotentially a multi-kazillion dollar industry, isn't there, in selling people productsthat they don't need. i mean, mostly, it's not harmfulto you, so i don't want people to think their body is weak anddoesn't have enough good things. and now they need togo out and buy this.
for some things, it reallymakes sense; for diarrhoea, especially for childrenand the elderly, probiotics are a very nicething, but then others, you really have to know, doi want to do this experiment, or is my body good enough itself if i had the goodbacteria in there. >> one of the reallyinteresting things in this for me was readingabout the idea that different people havedifferent gut types, you know,
that you can kind of classifydifferent people according to their gut florathat they have, which makes it an intriguing. >> they're already like startingto criticise this model of mine. >> tell me some more. >> well, they say that when youlook at different types of data, you can try to make a gut typeout of everything sort of, so they're saying, they're not so sure this is a stableway of looking at it.
but i think it just generated,in the beginning at least, a clear way to look at it, sopeople would have less fear of going into this research,because it's really scary. our immune system,bacteria and hormones, so much like what the peopleeat; it's very complex, but having this generated,i think easiness in the beginning formany researchers. and then again, people do havedifferent genetic profiles. how many genetics inthe bacteria are coming
in different guts that they have for processing meat,for example. if you eat lots of meat,you'll have bacteria, because they specialise and foster eatingmost different meats, and then others eat more plantbase, and so they have bacteria that have enzymes to digestthose plants for them, because really what thebacteria are, is like a huge; how do you call this thing
where you've got ahammer and a screwdriver. >> toolbox? >> a toolbox. it's really like a hugetoolbox of genetics that we can very fastlyacquire [inaudible], and to do thingsourselves are incapable of. >> i was fascinated, and i wouldlike to come to all of you; i was fascinated with alsothe comment that you made at the very beginning, andthis is, there's, you know,
interesting debatesaround this too, but knowing the way you cameinto the world, either caesarian or through birth canal, you canthen in a sense make a guess about what healthafflictions you might grapple with later on in life. >> fascinating work, isn't it. that process of being birthedexposes you to really sort of interesting sort ofbacteria, courtesy of mum. >> yeah, and also like,because when you're born,
you can like be deliveredvaginally. you get all this lacticacid bacteria that are there to protect; you knowup to the uterus, they get more denseand more acidic. so, then the baby comes out;it gets a layer of bacteria that make acids, and acids arevery protective, which you see in like sauerkraut, whichtakes a long time to go bad, because the acidreally protects. bad material usually don'tlike to live in the acid,
so the baby gets this protectionlayer from the mum to really, yeah, you know, have agood start in the world, and also the way of delivery. you can be turned with yourhead to the upper front, or you can look to theback when you come out. and it's far easier to be bornthe way to look to the back, so you even get a bit ofgut material this way, so it's really a smart design. >> yeah, it's interesting,isn't it?
let's come to somequestions and comments. we might just need thelights down a little bit so we can see our questioners. number one, thank you. >> hi. >> hello. >> i have probably apretty basic question. i don't have a large intestine. it was taken out three yearsago, and i was just wondering
when you're referring to thegut and gut bacteria and all of that, is thatthe small intestine, or is it both, or just. >> yeah, where doesthe bacteria live? yeah, so, what happensis when you go through the gastrointestinaltract, the density of material willgrow and grow and grow and grow, and really the biggest partis in the large intestine, and we have concentrate,it's like 10 to the 12th,
but it builds up inthe small intestine? it's not too good whenthey're too many bacteria in the small intestine, becausethat's when people feel bloated, or they can even be nauseous,because they're not meant to like disturb the digestiveprocess there too much, but they producegases and stuff. and the thing is, when the largeintestine has been removed, what scientists see is that actually thewhole system adapts,
and the small intestinewill start to like take over some bacterial tasks thatearlier used to be in the colon. so, some bacteria thatused to be like typical in the colon willgrow up a little bit, and the small intestinealso will usually add some surface area. >> when this happens, andthe bacteria will then be in this last part of the smallintestine like take over. it takes a while.
it takes time to. >> balance and balance,but after awhile, it develops quite nicely. >> cool. thank you very much. >> oh, i'd like to ask morequestions about what it's like to live without a largeintestine, but we might need to save that for later. thank you very much. hi, number four.
>> is this working? >> yep. >> so, there a lot of dietaryrecommendations are around, you know, eat two pieces offruit or one bread a day. a couple of years ago, thebrazilian government came out with recommendationsaround eat slowly and focus on your food or try not toeat in front of the television or when you're in a rush. i wonder if you havethoughts on the importance
of not just what weeat, but how we eat it? yes and how governmentinstitutions agency can tell people how important both are. >> that's a great question. >> there's strong opinionsof both [laughter]. one is about how to eat. i think is; the thingis when we're stressed, and we've known thisvery early on, actually, is that the wholegastrointestinal tract will save
energy and give it to thebrain or the muscles to run from something dangerousor to solve a problem, because that's usuallywhat stress is caused by. so, it will take downall kinds of energy. it will have less blood flow,so if you put in a camera, you could actually seethe walls like going from a pink colour to more pale. you could see this visually, andthen it will produce less mucus, which is our thick skin in thegut, like our protection layer,
and you will have less immunesubstance, where sorting out some bacteria will notlike happen as effectively. so, stress in a way draws energyfrom your gut, and that's okay, because sometimes there isa problem we need to solve, or there's something that weneed to run from, and it's okay that our body works this way. just when we overstretchit, and we sometimes tend to like sacrifice ourbody all the time, but hardly ever sacrificingsomething for our body.
so, when you get out of balance,and by now, you've maybe heard that i'm a big fan of balance. but yeah, if you like ingeneral, we say osmosing. you're mean, if somebodyis really nice to you; he's like doing allthese things, and you're taking advantage, and then i think thisgets out of balance. so, eating in a calm way,giving like back the energy that your gut owes youall the time when you have
like little stress moments,it's just fair, i believe, and then this emerges with. >> have compassion for your gut. >> yeah, because it sacrifices,and it's one of the organs that does this ona very high scale, because it's very connected due to its neuronic similaritiesto the brain. it's very much engagedin stress the brain has, so it will do this very vividly;compared to other organs
who are not that impressedby how stressed you are. mean, but like that'swhy the gut's great too. but, yeah, the other thing was, how should we tell thoseadvices, and i myself, that's why i said in thebeginning, i want to write like a typical advisor book, because i really dislikepeople telling me, do this, do this, do this. but what i like is when somebodyexplains something to me.
like the stress thing. oh, okay, so there's lessblood flow, there's less mucus, there's less immune protection. i get it now. you know, if i get it, if iunderstand it; that's all i want from people, and then imake my own decisions. then i say, okay, thisweek, i've totally blown it. i've stressed myself outover this, and this and this. i know it, and it's okay, buti will now be fair to it again.
i can make my own decisions. i can know when i want tosacrifice my body for awhile, and not, nobody tellme when or how to eat, but explaining why youwant to tell me this, and then i will handle it. >> yeah, that's refreshing,isn't it? if only all publicpolicy was like that. [laughter]. number three, thankyou, upstairs.
>> hi, guilia. i just wanted to ask. >> firstly, if you have a namefor the condition that you had as a young girl, where you werecovered in spots, and secondly if in your research youcame across any association with the numbers of appendicitisin australia and in the uk. it sounds like a genetic,or perhaps cultural or geographical associationwith that at all. >> yeah, that's intriguing,isn't it?
did you get that? >> not entire. are appendicitis? >> in australia, there's like ahigh incidence of appendicitis. >> is it, hmm? >> and in the uk as well? >> i think so, but i don'tknow, but i would think so, because the fibrecontent is especially low, i think, in england.
>> lard. >> okay, lard too. so, one of the thingsthat i found from one of my paediatrician professorsis that many times in children, they will like have a type ofconstipation, and then pieces of the various solid stoolwill then clog up the appendix, and then the inflammationreally starts to get going. so, if you don'teat a lot of fibre, then this will probably be morelikely to happen, but then,
i don't know if this is thewhole explanation for it. it could just be a part of it. it could just befor some people, and then other people itmight be microbiotic related, or something i don't know. so, this is that. and the other thing,my skin condition; i don't know the english word. in german dermatitishepatiformis, so it's a part
of the celiac disease. so, not eating gluten workedwell, but that isn't the case for everybody with dermatitis. >> yeah, interesting. >> thank you. >> actually, when i readthis book first a couple of years ago, i justhad my appendix out. >> and you know, ittakes a bit of time to get everything moving again
after you've had yourappendix out, i've discovered, and as soon as i read your book, everything got movingagain [laughter]. >> ah, ha, nice to see. >> do we have anythingat number two? we've got one at fourthere, thank you. >> a very short one. do you have anything thatyou do on a daily basis or any suggestions for onething people in this room can do
to help their gut; just on adaily basis, something simple? >> something, simple. >> dr. guilia. >> turn around; lookin the toilet, because that's whatcomes out in the end. you can check out; that's whyi like to put this in the book. we put like a littlelecture on faeces. i'll have to show you,because i find it so lovely. i just gave my sister the text,
and she made a littleframe around it. i was like really? from the small intestine. i just really likedit [laughter]. so, there's a scale. we call it the best of stoolscale, and you can just like see the consistency. and you can do this at home,like comfortably, because i feel that many peopledon't talk about this,
and i'm not saying they have to. but some people go for theirwhole lifetime thinking what they produce is normal, and thenthey find out it's actually not, and it's because of some foodintolerance, for example, that can cause diarrhoeaor constipation. milk sometimes can do both, andthen just looking and turning around and seeing, like theconsistency, colour alright? they feel very uncomfortable. you can flush.
it's very like safe [laughter]. so, this is one thingeverybody can do, and then i like listeningto gut. i think this is a nice andeasy once you know about it. because some people and some olddoctors will even still do this. they will say, oh, having atummy ache, you know once week, or having diarrhoea everyother time is normal. and i'm like, what, no it's not. you know, if we communicateand ask how you're doing.
have i treated you okay? are you craving something,and then i think listening to your appetite issomething that i like, because our appetite'sactually very smart. the people that usuallydon't believe that, because they think it's stupid. it's like wants chocolateand fries and chips, and all these badthings, but when you look at the science behind it,
the reason why youwant those things; the food industry tricksus just really smartly, because for whenexample, crispy things, those are big on what we like. it's like when you bite a plantor something that's very fresh, that hasn't laid on the ground,but just like fallen off, then it will be like crispy, because all the cellswill explode, because they're still veryfull, and this is why our body
and body like, whish, the crispyfeeling of things for example. and then other combinations likefat and sugar or acid and sugar, just like acid and sugar isactually natural on things, very healthy, like fruitor fermented fruits, but when we take cocacola, for example, if we take out the acid, ithink none of you would like it. you would find it disgusting. you would not drinka second glass. so, your body is not stupidwanting so much sugar,
it's just being trickedby putting acid to it. because we know it's from fruitor we know it's from fermenting, and then so i like followingthe appetite, but knowing the where the food industrytricks us, so when you know these fewareas then you can listen to all the other appetites,and they're really smart, and we especially seethis in pregnant women. my sister just gavebirth to her first baby, and while she was pregnant,it was amazing to us,
because in each differenttime zones, she was craving exactly thefoods that were necessary in the development ofthe child at that time. we kept looking up,and it was insane, so i was very amazed by that. i believed in appetite before, but i think i evenmore so do after this. i think that's it, likebe nice to your interior. be nice.
>> i like the fact that when ifound that we're more bacteria than human, i thinkeverything changed to me. i had much less existentialangst after that [laughter]. number three, thank you,and then i'll come to one. >> hi, guilia, i justwanted to get your thoughts on colonic irrigation and ondetoxing, whether these are good for your gut, and i justwondered, many women now who deliver their babies bycaesarian ought to have a swab of their vaginal bacteriaand placed on the baby
to get their bacteria. what are your thoughts on that? >> thanks. >> so about the cleansing, i believe at firstit's very important to know how yourgut cleans itself, and once we have the rumblingfrom [inaudible] test, you don't have to hear that. you just hear it ifthere's a lot of like air,
but also all the cells liningthe surface of the colon and small intestine will renewthemselves every like days up to weeks, so afterlike say three weeks, everything is completelynew and shiny in there, and when you just eathealthy and not too bad, and treat your gut right forthree weeks, it should be like a pretty clean thing. like, watch your bowelmovements a little bit so everything gets out.
if you're like the constipatedtype, of course, take care, but then like your gut reallycleans itself on a normal basis. so, i think for regularrecommendations, i would say know this andtrust and work together. and then i know they'resome diseases where people like kept telling, like when isaw patients in the hospital, they just kept tellingme it helped them so much with migraines or other things. so, i would not be the one totell them they're not right,
because they're in their body, and if they feel it helpsthen, i'm okay with this. there was a medical studyshowing that if you do this like for all kinds of things,there can be side effects. there can be destructionsometimes when it's done not proper orwhen the pressure is too high, but you have to becareful with those things. but if there are people whoreally say it helps them, i'm not saying theyshouldn't do it.
just like, also know yourbody cleans itself too. and then the other. >> there was the takingthe swab from the vagina. >> yeah true. when my sister was pregnant, wewere talking about this also, because we said, what ifit's a caesarian section. we've both been birthed, likeborn by caesarian section, so i would have done thisif it had been the case that my sister could havenot delivered naturally.
she did. it was a 10 pound baby. >> owie. >> and my sister has myphysique, so we were like, how, how did this baby pass. it was, but like we wereprepared it would be the other way maybe, and with that, youjust have to also know you have to know some things behind it. if it's stored awayfor too long, because you don't goall the way to the end
where it's the most safe. the most safe is at the entryof the wound, because that's where the bacteria arereally organising to protect like watchdogs, so theyare like the best acidic and the most protective ones,but you have to go there by going to the front first,and this is the other way around from the birth. so you maybe get some bacteria that aren't justgood and protective.
there will also maybe beothers one, so the thing is, it can't be stored for too long, and because they mightovergrow the other ones, and then it's really not anice thing to do for a child, so there's some thingsto watch out for, and i know they are tryingit now in a few hospital, at least in germany, and theydo this on a scientific basis, and they test everythingbefore they apply, and so there arealready signs happening,
and i hope this progresses fastenough so we can do this safe. but to be honest,i would have done if my sister would have had ac-section, because i feel safe with like handling bacteria. >> very interesting, i couldjust imagine the baby going, oh, mum, what is that for. a very quick question from you. >> i was just wondering whatyou feel the importance is of the way you chewyour food, the rate,
and how much you chew your food when you're eating,and would that help. >> and just before, i'll justgrab your question while you're there too, or didyou just ask one. >> so chewing the food. i'll grab the last two thanks. >> i just want to say,guilia, thank you so much, because i'm a psychologist,and one of the things that really stands out tome about what you've done
with your work hasreally started to dismantle shamearound the body. we run into a lot ofclients with trauma and other mentalhealth issues that mean that they have a very negativerelationship to the body. i think you've kind ofanswered some questions for me a little earlier whenyou started talking about some of the behavioural things thatwe can do when we're eating, and it's certainly going to getme thinking with my clients.
often what we do aspsychologist as we ask patients to get their brain to relaxtheir body, and for someone with a history of trauma,that's very confronting, because it means dealingwith whatever is going on. what some of the thingsthat you're saying is that if i actually justtune into my body and eat in a different way,those are the questions that i think i'm goingto start asking about? i guess one of thequestions was, if we do,
if people are slowing thosethings down and working out what their body needs more,do the bacteria start to change or at what rate when the stressresponse starts to quiet down, how fast does thatflora start to shift. >> thank you verymuch, and we're just out of time, so quick answers. >> alright. >> thank you, greatlast question. >> drink, i think itprobably is important,
also because when youeat in a calm way, you might take more timeor not, but i don't know, because i don't have like factsor have read about this more, so i'm very vagueon this actually. one of my professors statedthat the amount of enzymes in our saliva isactually really too little to really start digesting much,and that it's more to keep up the dental hygieneafter you've eaten. i don't know if that's true, buti find it interesting, but yeah,
i guess that's alli know on this. yes, and. >> and if you do changesome of behaviours. >> oh right, how fastdoes the bacteria change? we see for example withchanging their diet, this is surprisingly fast, so ifyou eat a very meat based-diet and you suddenly to changeto a vegetarian diet, this happens evenafter a few days, that the first changesreally become visible.
so, it's actually withsome like crucial things like eating proteinor like meat or plant, this happens quite fast. with stress for example,i don't know. i know that people whoare stressed and have like a long period of stress,and could sometimes even slip into depression because of that, it's proven that they havedifferent gut bacteria. probably also other things
like the immune systembeing different then, and insulating this, so it's notonly a one thing, but i do not about the [inaudible]things, how fast those change, but when you look at thefood, it's pretty fast. >> pretty fast. look, this is theall about festival, and i was really struck aswe were speaking outside that you think that yourmother and your sister and your grandmother, who yousaid really had given you a
great love of learning for thesake of the love of learning, and i can just feel it in youas you talk, as we all do. and just briefly and finally,what are you going to do next. >> well, i'll justbe at the hospital with a white coat, and work. >> really? >> and just is probablythe wrong word, because i'm very nervous. i hope i'll learn fast,and get the technique
and the craft rightas fast as possible, because that's all ahead of me,like getting all the experience. >> what a wonderfultreat to host you here at the all about women festival. thank you so much, guilia. >> thank you so much. thank you. [ music ]
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